MY LOCAL AQUATIC SHOP SAYS I CAN HAVE A PLEC AND MAYBE SOME NEONS IN WITH THEM I DONT TRUST THIS IS TRUE !!

you are right not to trust them mate rbp's should not have tankmates because they will end up eaten sooner or later some people have had plecs in with them but usally it ends in death so i would not put any tankmates in with them other than pygo's

Don't mix juvenile reds with any other fish mate. The whole co-habitation issue comes up regularly, suffice to say it is generally agreed it is not the done thing and has serious risk to all participants!!!

Welcome to the forum by the way. Any questions you cant find in the newbie section- ask away.

Do you have to SHOUT?

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ????

You don't need to use caps lock all the time! Its the internet equivalent of shouting!

Spot on Dan.

my next door neighbour has had a plec with rbp's for just under 3 years and they dont bother with him at all its like hes not even there

Plecs have been kept with a degree of success cohabiting, but as several long term P keepers on here will tell you, it can end in tears and deaths.

It is of course up to you, but generally, the P keepers on here would say not to mix pygos with other species.

Its not worth the risk, if you want other fish then set up another tank for them

Thats what I did

But.... Plan on using my spare Rio 180 for a 5-6" Rhom or another Sera species

i keep 2 large 12" sail fin plecs and 2 3" sail fins plus a few red eye tetra and black neons with my rbs and piraya they have the odd nip at the plecs but generally leave them be most of my neons have been eaten but my red eye tetra seem to be left alone for some reason.
i think its a risk putting anything in with piranhas but alot of people keep oscars and other types with rbs and have no problems.

I find the best tank mates for my p's are sand and wood. So far they've been fine, the sand goes about it's business, though the wood likes to just sit there... looking hard.
I did try a kitten once, though didn't go that well.

So would you go sand or gravel ive asked this many times ?
thanks

Bought two equally sized (don't remember which kind) to my red bellies once just to try it out.. They ate one instantly but the other one lived in the tank for 1½ year.. Named him Bobby! I miss him.. :<

Anyways, I suppose they can have tank mates, but chances are they'll eaten eventually..

Sand is popular, and because it is fine, the debris sits oon the top so it is easier to clean. I have never done it but im reliably informed thats the case.
Gravel looks good as well, just be aware that because there is gaps that debris can collect and it will need a good gravel hoovering regularly.

So would you go sand or gravel ive asked this many times ?
thanks
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Sand is popular, and because it is fine, the debris sits oon the top so it is easier to clean. I have never done it but im reliably informed thats the case.
Gravel looks good as well, just be aware that because there is gaps that debris can collect and it will need a good gravel hoovering regularly.
[/quote]


Dito, I find sand easier to clean as you can see all the crap better

Sand or bare for me to.

hi i have got a shoal of Pygo`s 6Xnats 1Xcaribe they live with a few tank mates i hav a large pleco and a siamese algea eater and around 40 neons. I`ve only been keeping Piranhas for 2yrs or so now so id still class myself as a novice. i did loose a small pleco a wile back but they seem 2 live in relative harmony as long as they r not aloud 2 get hungry.

tiger oscars r good tankmate ... must be the same size as ur red.

How do you qualify that statement? Have you kept them together without any damage or fatalities?

yes i have, i keep 5 oscars and 5 red together in a 200 gallon.

all same size around 9-10 inch ...

Please post some pics, I have never heard of that being a successful co-hab.

Yeah I'd like to see some pictures if you can.

I wonder if its pacus and not piranha......?

Of course they can be kept together. I don't need a pic as a proof.
The reality about cohab questions is that nothing can or can't be done.

The question is for how long it works. I opened up a topic about a year ago on another piranha forum about it, and got the same reactions like I read here.
No offense guys, but what you mention is a one time opportunity that works so far. However it's like putting two inmates in a small cell. They will get along for a while, but the psychological value of that situation would be to study how long it takes before one of 'm gets killed.

Same with piranhas. That yóu have a cohab that works fine for a week/month/year, does not mean it's a good tank mate. Eventually one of them wíll get killed. What we're dealing with are forced cohabs, don't forget that.

Lucien
To be blunt that is a silly analogy. The definition of a successful cohab should ultimately be that they dont kill each other, and for you to say that it can be done in one breath but then acknowledge they will eventually kill each other is quite frankly bewildering.
It is obvious from this and other posts you have made that you have a desire to push the boundaries of p keeping which is fine, and your choioce to make, but I think we should be offering valid advice based on current and safe practice and not speculative theories on cohabs that will end in deaths.
I think my duty as a keeper of a fish is to provide the best and safest environment- 'psychological value' in experimentation has no place for amateur hobbyist fishkeepers. Lets leave that to the zoologists.

Well said Dan.

pictures or it didnt happen!!

I think you misunderstood my intention (or I phrased myself in a bad way).
The question if other fish can be kept with piranhas, is one that pops up again and again. And no matter how often you say it can't, there'll always be replies like "I have this or that with it and it's no problem".
I tried to explain, that the "keeping together" they refer to, is in no way an indicator that the cohab is possible : yes you can put/keep them together, but the question is for how long. One should not ask for pics to prove it, for that pic won't show how long they have been together. I just threw in 2 metynnis with my geryi. Should I take a shot of it, for proof it's a possible cohab ?
That's bullocks, for next week they will (most likely) be eaten. Nevertheless I can post a pic and say "see, they can be together".

That was how I meant my first sentence : of course they can be kept together for a short period of time. But they will be killed, with or without a picture to prove anything.
In other words : keeping together is a temporary situation, 'till the first mortality is there. Keeping together, is not the same as a succesful cohab...
That was what I meant in my first phrase : there'll always be some people who have a cohab without mortalities that we consider impossible. But that does not mean that we're talking about a succesful cohab.

There is another side of the coin though :



No offense, but what do you call current practice ? As far as I can see, the advise given is based on beliefs of decades ago. The big faith in "the old experiences" is dated from a time even pygos were considered solitair, the days that no one would consider it possible to breed serras and overstcok was believed to harm them.
You're right, I am pushing some boundaries, though as far as my advise goes, I stick to science. Not common beliefs dating way back in time.

Would you have believed several serrasalmus species can be kept as a group, if all you got were the answers given ?

:beer:

I agree, methods, beliefs and practices must evolve, in keeping with shared experiences. I think we must be careful not to overthink this though- if we return to the original question regarding co-habs, I think it is a fair and reasoned response to the 'average' P keeper to simply say that experimenting with co-habs of different species is risky and to be avoided in the general sense.
If we want to, we can give a lengthy explanation as to why this decision is arrived at, but as this question pops up practically every week it is easier to follow established practice and say 'dont do it' when reduced to its most basic level.

I still want to see photos of oscars with RB's though


On a more serious note, in the iinterests of furthering our knowledge, perhaps we can compile a list of proven successful cohabs so we can perhaps work toward your valid point of evolving our knowledge and advice. Just need to have a think on how to do it- Im not for a minute suggesting we now experiment, but lets see what has happened already and go from there.

I still should have some pics of my rhombeus with an oscar... although I didn't keep 'm longer together then 24 hours :P

Of course, I agree we should keep on telling that there are big risks. But starting a list of proven cohabs will be useless, for it's never a proven cohab. what will work in my tank, may turn into mayhem in another. Nothing is possible, nor impossible.
There are too many variables. Tank size, diet, water quality, size and age, amounts of fish, etc etc.

But to go back to the original question : nothing's 100% guarantee, but plecos and gibbies usually will do fine.

[quote name='CombiChrist' date='May 7 2010, 17:55 ' post='157348']
I still should have some pics of my rhombeus with an oscar... although I didn't keep 'm longer together then 24 hours :P

if you put a rapist in a room with a young virgin there will only be one out come!!!

Not just virgins, Vinny

But in the absence of knowing what has been tried and hasnt, we have a knowledge base of zero..........I might start a thread out of interest.

there r lots of vid on youtube that u can find and view.

RED wont atk the oscars, RED only atk in group but a 5 on 5? i dont think the RED will dear to atk any Oscars.
oscars r as wild as RED. as long as u feed them both,they will live alone together well ...



i use to keep tiger barb with RED and i have to say ... only 1 or 2 tiger barb got eaten...

A successful co-hab then.

Disagreed, I've seen them get attacked by pygos as well as by serras. With enough feeding for both species.There might be a key factor though considering habitat : if reds are introduced after the oscars, the oscars may defend their territory from day 1, resulting in a better acceptance by the reds.With a serra though it's an attack within a day : the serra will be dominant no matter how agressive the oscar is...I've heard many cases of keeping reds in a group, in which one or two reds got killed. Should we conclude it's not a succesful cohab ?We're talking about predators dan, an occasional mortality is part of it. Sometimes people get killed by their own dogs, would you call it impossible to keep dogs just by those few deaths attributed by them ?

Watch this :

someone saying oscars and piranhas can be kept together :




And the same guy learned two months later it's not an ultimate cohab :

I think its a shame that some people subject a living creature to that kind of life. Yes I know it happens in the wild but that fish would have been swiftly put out of its misery. Why is it that fish get no respect? If a safari park let loose a herd of deer in the lion enclosure there would be uproar. Yet it seems to be acceptable to do a similar thing with fish.

i agree

Lucien,
we could go on forever with this. We both have differing views, which have been put across. If you think predators should have non predators introduced and co-habbing them is fine- up to you.
I know what advice I will be offering next time its asked.

so whats that then dan ??

Have a read of the thread before, and hopefully its straightforward.

Cichlids are predators too Dan
But indeed our views will be crossing agian and again, so let's have a beer

No problemo. Thats what forums are for.

cichlids are predators

i wish i hadnt seen that a bit fuked up to say the least